It is in the 20th edition of the Ageas Cooljazz that Dino D’Santiago makes his debut at the festival. And as the headliner, on a day when MARO, Rogério Pitomba Trio, and Progressivu also perform. Mark your calendar: it’s on the 19th of July, and tickets are still available, priced between €25 and €30.
Dino D’Santiago has a new show up his sleeve, which sees him performing with a band again, after a couple of years in a more solitary format on stage, which he used to present his latest album, Badiu (2021), where he explores his pains and vulnerabilities related to his historical roots.
For 2024, he has prepared a performance with more musicality, spanning his different albums and reflecting a particular moment of inner peace for the artist. We talked about the concert at Ageas Cooljazz, the new songs he has been releasing in partnership — building various bridges with Brazil — and other projects he has in hand, such as a degree he reveals he is planning to pursue.
He has already performed at the Hipódromo Manuel Possolo during the pandemic and has seen many concerts at Cooljazz over the years. Is he excited about this debut at the festival?
For me, it's very important, especially because of the great concerts I've seen at this festival, such as Kanye West, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Sharon Jones, Charles Bradley... These concerts moved me. And every year when I see the line-up, I think I could do this. Considering how I was raised, always in the world of jazz musicians and American black music, and even the musicians who accompanied me were always trained in that matrix, being able to actually come to the festival and bring the flavour of batuku and funaná to an event where these rhythms wouldn't normally be included is always another revolution for me, another door opened. And for others to be part of this journey. On the 19th, I will also have an encounter I've been looking forward to, with MARO. During the pandemic, she invited me to do "Tudo Certo" in those sessions she did, then she was invited to perform with one of the artists I had on "The Voice," Coastel, and now we will be on the same stage to celebrate Portuguese music. And this shows what Portugal is today.
Is it important to have a day dedicated to Portuguese music at a festival like this, even though there are national artists opening for international headliners on other days?
Very, very important. It's almost sad that there needs to be such a day, but at the same time, it's brave to do it and to embrace this day in this way. And it's beautiful, in a festival that has jazz as its root, to have these artists celebrating Portuguese music... It's a glimpse of this new Portugal.
How has it been performing with this new band format? It's been a long time since you've done so.
It's been truly beautiful. The previous format was much like a monologue, and the band ended up being the audience, I was very influenced by the audience.
The performance depended much more on you.
Yes, much more. And since I was trained with musicians, it was challenging, but I feel that I’ve closed my cycle with that monologue, where I learned a lot, where I was very vulnerable, but I was really able to show the importance those rhythms and electronic sound had for me. It was more about not having instruments that could replicate the power of a concert when it is entirely electronic, coming directly from the producer to the stage... It’s very difficult to give back to the audience in the same way when you bring in a band. Things always change. So, it was important for me to solidify myself in that audiovisual monologue, with a sound that I wanted to leave a mark, so that in 50 or 100 years people can say, "he represented a generation."
And it was a format that matched Badiu, your last album, where you expose your vulnerabilities and pains, exploring your anxieties related to your roots.
Exactly, so it wasn’t something to share with just anyone. Not on stage, and even with the audience, it was like stripping myself bare... It was much more intimate. It was worth it. Now, with the musicians, it feels like I’ve healed, and now we go, and it’s been an embrace. We've been very happy on the road, the concerts are always different, the setlist changes suddenly...
I was going to ask that. How has the setlist been, and how has it changed since the monologue that was more focused on Badiu?
It’s more generalised now, encompassing more tracks from all the albums, from Eva to Badiu, and it’s good to see how they all blend together with the band and seem like they’re from the same album. The way the journey is being made: it starts from Eva, goes through Mundu Nôbu, then Sotavento, then Kriola, and finally Badiu. And I’ve felt that people are reacting a lot because there are tracks that remain instrumental for longer. When it comes to the funanás, I really stretch them to the end. The batukus too. This has shown me that often I don’t even need to be singing. It’s enough to pick up the ferrinho and just jam with the band.
The show has gained musicality, I suppose.
Yes, it has — and a spontaneity and freedom of movement. When everything was on timecode, when it was all electronic, I was limited to the time we had set for the music.
You recently released "Oh Bahia," a track with the artist Luedji Luna, who will also be performing at Cooljazz and will make a special appearance in your performance. How did this collaboration come about? And you also recently did a song with other Brazilian musicians, Criolo and Amaro Freitas, "Esperança." Has this been an intentional turn towards Brazil? Or was it a coincidence that these two artistic synergies happened now?
It was a very real intention to feel Brazil and connect with artists I’m a fan of. The first was with Rincon Sapiência for Badiu, then I did the song "Maria" with Emicida. And we toured together, he was here in Portugal, and then I was with him in Rio de Janeiro. After that, there was the track with BaianaSystem, "Batukerê," which was a very magical moment, where I met Luedji Luna and invited her to do this "Oh Bahia," marking this encounter between Santiago and Salvador. We really wanted to make that match across both sides of the ocean. Then came Criolo’s invitation to make this journey with him and Amaro Freitas, thus joining Santiago, Recife, and São Paulo in a very hopeful journey. We talk about “Esperança” in the song precisely for that reason; we came to fulfil the dreams of our ancestors. And it created a very interesting dialogue between the three of us. They are coming back to Portugal so we can join up more often and let it flow because we don’t know what might come out of it.
But are these bridges you intend to build more and more with Brazil or, looking at the Lusophone world in general?
Very much with Brazil, because I was already building bridges with the PALOP countries, and now I want to strengthen this axis that connects us to Brazil, as it’s the country with the largest immigrant population here, surpassing Cape Verde, which was the largest previously...
It’s a much larger country, on a different scale.
It’s immense. In the metropolitan area of São Paulo alone, there are over 20 million people, and in the state, there are over 40 million. It’s a completely different scale. Every time I go there and play, I feel that there’s still so much for us to discover. And I also want them to come here to discover a Portugal they didn’t know at all. They weren’t aware of the African Portugal, this genesis. They associated these artists with their countries of origin, Cape Verde or Angola. But when they realised that Lisbon was the meeting point for all these places, those who are living here started to export much more, making these connections with Brazil, and now there is a lot of connection, with people from the trap scene, for example. I mean, with Plutonio, Wet Bed Gang... And many others. Bárbara Bandeira, now. In the past, there were these encounters with artists like Caetano Veloso, Gilberto Gil, etc., but the new generation wasn’t having these encounters. And now there are more and more. Ivandro too, Calema...
Do you feel that this is the way for Portuguese music to be more promoted to the Brazilian audience? This is often pointed out as the biggest challenge.
Without a doubt. And without disregarding paths like what Carminho is doing, who recorded an entire album in tribute to Tom Jobim with his own children, and is respected by everyone from Gal Costa to Maria Bethânia, Milton Nascimento, and Chico Buarque. In the entire national scene, even more than Amália, Carminho is the biggest name from our country in Brazil. Representing what we call Portuguese culture, more connected to fado. And it’s good to understand the other side that was yet to be explored, Afro-Brazil, which is very large. There are more than 100 million people.
And there are many parallels that can be drawn with Afro-Portugal, a term that isn’t used here but represents a very real reality.
And this encounter is bringing other seas, it’s not just confined to Portuguese territory. It immediately opens doors to Angola, Cape Verde, Mozambique, Guinea-Bissau, São Tomé... It’s giving me special pleasure to feel that.
And there are many shared narratives.
Absolutely, in terms of religion, ideology, beliefs, dreams, context, and above all, traumas. There is a lot of commonality in that universe, of trauma and self-overcoming. And that makes the history somewhat redefined.
Have you been working on new music? Is there anything you can share in that regard?
I’ve been constantly working. It’s incredible because I have many people asking me, "Dino, more new songs," but we’re in July, and it’s true I haven’t released an album, but this year I’ve already released the track for the film, "Filho do Vento"; the track with Apollo G and Mr. Marley; the track with BaianaSystem; with Luedji Luna; with Criolo; "Mood 111" with Branko, which is one of the songs I listen to the most; and now a track with Pedro da Linha... It’s not an album, but there are seven songs out there that keep my energy on the road. And besides that, there’s the curation and preparation of Jardim de Verão; the Mundu Nôbu foundation, which required long trips and is now established. I live very much in the spirit of, besides making my own albums, wanting to provide a stage. Sometimes it’s almost thankless because the album is needed, but at the same time, it’s materialising in other ways. But I really want an album! I feel happy when I enter that universe. Entering that journey and knowing what will come out of it is priceless. But I have so many dreams. I’d like to tour with Branko because we already have 10 songs together; I’d like to do a tour just with an orchestra. But a new album will always be good.
I was asking about new music to understand where you are leaning musically. Have you been more connected to these Brazilian artists and has that influenced you musically?
It has influenced me, although I feel that what I want is more the opposite. I want Brazil to be influenced by batuku and funaná. I want to explore that even more. So, if I could make an entire album of funaná, it would be a great victory for me.
Something more organic?
But mixed with my own style. It’s almost like mixing Sotavento with Badiu, with tracks like "Voei de Mim," "Brava (Carta pa Tareza)," "Fogo"... That line. Having more tracks with that friction, that hypnosis.
And in terms of message, do you currently feel more conciliatory like in Kriola or more anguished like in Badiu? Considering your personal life and the moment we are living as a society.
Considering the journey I’ve been on in recent months, I’m in a space of nurturing myself, gaining more and more knowledge, but in a vibratory field much closer to love, of being at peace with my choices. And at peace with not pleasing everyone. It always bothered me to be misunderstood, misinterpreted, and when I managed to place that responsibility on those to whom it’s due and take it off myself, life became much lighter. I feel very much that I am on a journey of self-knowledge, wanting to explore myself to the maximum, going to the limit without fear of anything. It’s giving me pleasure because it’s a true sense of freedom. I always try to ensure that what I say and think comes from a place of love. That it’s not from pain, from anger... When I project the word, it’s already well recycled. It’s not just a venting.
It’s the fruit of reflection.
And accepting the various places of interpretation.
Mundu Nôbu was released six years ago. Many things have happened since then, both in the world and in your life. At the beginning, it was certainly intense, with a lot happening, and you moved from one place to another very quickly. But then that position was maintained, which is the most difficult thing when thinking about artistic careers. I’m sure at the time you thought it might be a more momentary hype and that things would calm down, but that’s not what happened. There were always new steps and things happening that kept you in that place, opening other doors, but you managed to make that journey and today you are much more established and consolidated.
You bet. Nothing happens by chance. Last night was a night of reflection, I wrote a lot about the path taken up to now, which now leads me to want to get a degree. I’m going to do a course in Jazz and Modern Music at Universidade Lusíada. The teacher I spoke to, Helena Botelho, said to me: "you could be a teacher here." But they understood my desire to realise my childhood dreams. I always wanted to get a degree. It could have been in Fine Arts... I didn’t know it would be in music, but it’s just as well that it is because it has been a truly beautiful passport, my travels. And I really had to prepare a CV to present. And when I look at everything that has been done since Mundu Nôbu, I don’t even need to go back to Eva, it seemed like I had already lived four lives, with all the things that happened to me. Tourism ambassador in Cape Verde, ambassador for an intercultural mediation course, one of the 100 most influential people of African descent by UNESCO, things you can’t imagine happening to you just because you started a path called Mundu Nôbu. Suddenly it gives you all the other worlds you wished for: a Golden Globe, GQ Men of the Year, I already had an MTV award but was nominated again... As far as awards go, in Cape Verde, in Portugal and the world, life has given me a lot. If you define that as a measure — just as footballers use Ballon d'Ors or the titles they've won. Like being the most awarded artist at the Play awards. I realised that this counts when I arrived in Brazil. Suddenly it wasn’t just Dino. They dumped on me everything I had already received. Not even I... Because I receive them and don’t even keep them at home. They go outside so they don’t take up space.
You don't want that weight.
Not at all. "Do you realise you’re the first person of African descent to receive a cultural merit medal in Portugal?" Damn... But we had Bonga, Sara Tavares... I always see the other person instead of seeing myself, but I can’t take away the merit of what happened to me. That’s why I say that this journey of self-knowledge has helped me to value myself and to want to celebrate this with my parents, for example...
But about the course you’re going to do, did you feel the lack of that theoretical musical background?
I did... When I received the book with the scores of the orchestration that was done for my concert, because I asked the conductor of the Santa Maria da Feira Youth Symphony Band... Suddenly I’m reading what are my songs and I don’t know anything that is written there except the title. And I didn’t want that anymore for myself. I don’t want to be illiterate in my own art. I give and make people vibe with something that I won’t be able to read with the universal language of the musician... When a kid in Tibet will be able to read and even sing what I’m doing, just by what he’s reading, what’s on the sheet.
But, as is well known, it is very common for popular musicians not to know how to read sheet music or have much knowledge of musical theory.
Yes, but we shouldn’t normalise that. We should give everything to live in that excellence, to surpass ourselves. Because we also know that there’s a certain comfort in thinking you’re already established. Why would I study music? But it’s very difficult for me to sign and have my green receipt as a musician. I can’t explain why. It’s something very individual and personal, and each person should feel how they feel, but I don’t feel like a complete musician if I can’t write music. Imagine I go mute, but I would write my music and you would know what melody I’m making just by what’s written.
And that’s why you wanted to get training.
Yes, and I’m going to do it for my singing. It’s an instrument and the more I know about my own instrument, the better. And then to fulfil the dream of one day being able to be a teacher as well. And I really liked this course because they are new teachers and I realised there is a very beautiful spirit among the students and teachers. The people they invite to the faculty are musicians I admire. And they even give you space to create a module for the course. I also go with that ambition. Let me feel the academic environment and create a module, because I really have this idea of creating a module of music by intuition for social intervention.
How do you foresee this edition of Jardim de Verão at the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation?
For me, it was very important this time for the garden to open up to the inside of the house. Gulbenkian had the dignified gesture of opening the Grand Auditorium to serve the community, for free, and give that stage to the musicians who are very happy to go and play there... And the amphitheatre remains, the garden will also continue to be animated by Indi Mateta and Umafricana. And it’s good to realise that they trusted me for another year, which is already the third in a row, and it’s something that can last a long time yet. After all, there are always new artists emerging.
Ageas Cooljazz. Manuel Possolo Racecourse, Cascais. Tue, July 9th. 25€-30€
+ Six unmissable concerts in the 20th anniversary of Ageas Cooljazz